[[Home|🏠]] <span style="color: LightSlateGray">></span> [[Interviews]] <span style="color: LightSlateGray">></span> August 10 2014 **Insider**: [[Peter Beck]] **Source**: [TMRO Space](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkmrZVDmio4) **Date**: August 10 2014 ![](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkmrZVDmio4) 🔗 Backup Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkmrZVDmio4 ## 🎙️ Transcript >[!hint] Transcript may contain errors or inaccuracies. **Benjamin:** Welcome back to Tomorrow. I'd like to thank all of the patrons of Tomorrow who have helped to make this specific episode of Tomorrow happen. These are the people who have contributed at least five dollars to this specific episode. Without you, we wouldn't be able to continue to do this week after week. A huge thank you to all of our patrons. You can learn more information on how to become a patron of Tomorrow at patreon.com/TMRO. We are a crowd-funded show, and every single dollar helps. All right, let's go ahead and get started with the second segment here. We actually have a live guest on this week. We're joined by Peter Beck, who is the CEO and founder of Rocket Labs USA. Peter, welcome to the show. **Peter Beck:** Thanks very much, Benjamin. **Benjamin:** So tell me a little bit about Rocket Lab USA. You're fairly new. I don't think a lot of people have heard of you yet. What are you guys doing? **Peter Beck:** Well, we actually started in 2007 in New Zealand, and we started off down there doing sounding rockets. And in 2009, we became the first private company in the southern hemisphere to reach space. Then following that, we won a number of DARPA contracts and demonstrated a new kind of propulsion system called our Viscous Liquid Monopropellant, which stores like a solid but is controllable like a liquid. And then also various Lockheed Martin and Aerojet Rocketdyne work. And then about this time last year, actually, we decided that we built up enough credibility and capability to go and do what we really wanted to do, which was build a small orbital launch vehicle. And we raised a Series A round out of Silicon Valley, and we're working hard to get to our first launch next year. **Benjamin:** Let's talk about this new vehicle a little bit. You call it the Electron rocket. What's unique about this rocket that's different than other rockets? **Peter Beck:** I guess we started this rocket from a clean sheet of paper. So the first thing we did was look at the issues with trying to create a low-cost launch system. And one of the big issues is, of course, launch and range. So we decided that instead of doing it in the United States, we were going to do it in New Zealand where we're all from. But the advantage of New Zealand is it's a small island nation in the middle of the Pacific with relatively no air traffic, no marine traffic, good orbital launch azimuths, and nothing to hit until Chile. So it was really a great place to do launch. That's what we did - we took the last 20 years of weather at our launch site, and that formed the basis of our structural margins and our TVC authorities so that we can launch 95 percent of the time of the year. And that's where we started from. So I guess what's unique about the launch system is it's designed from scratch - absolutely everything. There's no heritage hardware in there whatsoever, and it's designed to be a frequently launched small satellite launcher. **Benjamin:** How small of a satellite? **Peter Beck:** 110 kilograms to a 500-kilometer sun-synchronous orbit. **Benjamin:** And you're doing some unique things with structures as well, right? A traditional rocket's aircraft aluminum or something along those lines, but you're not doing that. What are you doing? **Peter Beck:** Yeah, so I mean, our history has always been carbon composites. We've actually never built a rocket case or a propellant tank out of metallics. We've only ever built them out of carbon composite. So for us, it was a natural progression to build the whole launch vehicle out of carbon composites. That obviously throws up some real challenges when you're working with cryogenic liquid oxygen, but those challenges we've been able to meet and succeed. So it reduces a lot of mass out of the vehicle, and we produced the first stage tank on a mandrel. We've dubbed it the "mega mandrel," and we basically pop a tank off of one mandrel in a couple of days. So it's a very mass-produced way of producing very high-performance composite tanks. **Benjamin:** So to clarify, you're saying that it only takes a couple of days to build the tank for one of your stages. Is that correct? **Peter Beck:** Yeah, yeah. For the first stage tank, it's a couple of days. **Benjamin:** That's pretty cool. And using carbon carbon composites as well - actually, we had Dave Mastin of Masten Space Systems on a few weeks ago, and he talked about some of the challenges there because composites do not like super-cooled anything or super-hot anything. So that in and of itself is a pretty big challenge to overcome as well. **Peter Beck:** Certainly is, yeah. I mean, there's a lot of issues that we had to overcome with microcracking and oxygen compatibility. But like I say, I mean, we've only ever worked with composites, and we're lucky to have New Zealand, which is a very strong industry in high-performance composites. If you look at the America's Cup boats and things like that... So yeah, it's been a challenge, but we're pretty confident with it. **Benjamin:** Now, one of the unique things about your rocket is that it's actually end-to-end. You own the whole thing - you've got the engines, the tanks, all of it. And the engines are traditional - I believe it was rocket propellant one and liquid oxygen, if I remember right, or at least highly refined kerosene. But you just talked earlier about how you actually had a different kind of fuel that you had developed earlier. Why not use that fuel for the Rutherford engine? **Peter Beck:** That's a very good question. And the answer is... so that viscous liquid monopropellant was really supposed to be the silver bullet for reducing cost in propulsion. But as it turned out, it's not the silver bullet. It's really expensive, but from a tactical point of view, it's really useful. So it's not useful for a small launch vehicle. And I guess Rocket Lab - we've played with hybrids, we've played with liquids, we've played with solids, we've played with viscous liquid monopropellants. So for us, it was really not an emotional decision about which propulsion system to use. It was: what is the best propulsion system to get the job done? And that was liquid oxygen and RP-1. **Benjamin:** And it's a real propulsion system. We're actually looking at an image right now of - I believe this was on your blog - one of the test firings of this engine. So you actually are creating fire with the engine. This isn't a paper engine. This is a real engine that's firing right now. **Peter Beck:** Absolutely, yep, yep. Now we're running that motor about once every two weeks. **Benjamin:** And then you said - I'm sorry, maybe you didn't give a time frame - how long until you think you'll be able to fly the rocket itself into space? **Peter Beck:** So we're aiming for a first orbital shot at the end of 2015. **Benjamin:** So what's the delay right now? What would get you to go faster? Maybe end of 2014, although that's a bit insane. But what's the thing that's holding you back from being able to launch faster? **Peter Beck:** Well, building an orbital launch vehicle is really hard because there's a lot of elements in there. It's not just a propulsion system - tanks and structures, avionics, GNC, launch pad infrastructure... really to do it in two years, most people think we're nuts. So I think I don't think we can push that one any harder than that. **Benjamin:** Where do you go from here? Right, so you've got this - this is a one-meter fairing, right? This is a one meter in diameter system. Do you envision a larger, say, four or five-meter version of this in the future? What's the plan moving into 2020? **Peter Beck:** Not at all. So let me sort of circle back on the whole ethos of what we're trying to do here. So there's two fundamental elements that you need to achieve to be able to commercialize space. So the first is cost, and we don't believe in cost per kilogram. We believe in the total amount of cost - total amount of capital that you have to go and raise to become a space business. So although unlike a Falcon 9, its cost per kilogram is much more competitive than ours, you're still going to go and raise 60 million dollars if you want to go where you want to go when you want to go. So what we're about is getting that down to a small enough amount that you can feasibly go and raise some capital to go and create your own space business. **Benjamin:** And how much would I have to raise? So I want to launch something... **Peter Beck:** 4.9... **Benjamin:** So 5 million US dollars. Correct? And I can launch - I can launch - you said about a little over 100 kilograms into low Earth orbit? **Peter Beck:** Correct. All the way up - sun-synchronous. So basically, for the same price as a ride share, you get to go where you want to go when you want to go. **Benjamin:** So that's pretty cool. That could be a potential game-changer because that five million dollar price point - actually, you mentioned the Falcon 9. SpaceX - prior to the Falcon 9, they had the Falcon 1, which was much similar in spec, although even that was more expensive than what you're offering right here. So is it - what's the secret sauce to keep your price down? Or do you not want to give away your secret sauce on a broadcast? **Peter Beck:** Well, I mean, I still want to circle back on... because I think I mentioned that there's two key elements here, and it's not just cost - it's responsiveness. So without one or the other, you can't commercialize space. So when I say responsiveness, what I mean is that if you can't - if you've got to wait a year to get launched, then the launch may as well be free because you still - you still can't be really commercial in business. If you look at all the large constellations in history - the Iridiums, the Global Stars - they've all been sort of six to eight years to generate any revenue and gone bankrupt. So unless you fix that problem, the cost problem is largely irrelevant too. So we set ourselves a goal, and that was why we started off with a clean sheet of paper and why we went back to weather. You know, when we're designing the vehicle, we need to be able to launch once a week. And once you've got that sort of service to space at that sort of price point, then you can start to do some really interesting things. **Benjamin:** And you will be launching from... because you're in the US right now. I mean, you physically are in the U.S. right now. Will you be launching from the U.S. at all, or will you be almost entirely in New Zealand? Where's your launch platform going to be? **Peter Beck:** Here's the thing: it's really easy to build a rocket in America. It's really hard to launch it. It's really hard to build a rocket in New Zealand, but it's really easy to launch it. And you know, in America, the common solution for launching is to do air launch. And you know, that's not without its issues. It's much nicer to just walk up to something on the ground, give it a hug and a kiss, and send it on its way than all the logistics of air launch. So for us, you know, if we want to reach our one launch a week target, then that's why we had to be based in a country where we could launch at that sort of frequency. **Benjamin:** So would you have - I don't want to say development, but production in one country and launch in another? Or would you have all of it combined? How would that work? **Peter Beck:** Yeah, so definitely, we'll have some production up here in the US where there's an industrial base to meet our requirements, some down in New Zealand. But ultimately, we will launch down in New Zealand, but we also do intend to launch out of the US as well. But I just - it'll be - we'll struggle to reach the same price point. That's the only issue with that. **Benjamin:** I'll tell you why we're excited about it. Because we see all these Kickstarter campaigns and even these smaller companies like Planetary Resources with these small nanosats and even microsats that want to get up into space. And as you mentioned, if you want to be the primary payload on anything, yeah, your price per kilogram may be low on a Falcon 9, but the price to get into space is still 60 to 100 million dollars. Whereas if I now want to create a Kickstarter campaign, it's not unreasonable to say, you know, I'm going to create a Kickstarter campaign, and I'm going to raise - we'll call it two million dollars for my whole thing. Now that doesn't get me the whole flight, but it gets me a long way there. And that gets me enough to create my nanosat, maybe have additional payloads on this thing, and possibly pay for the whole thing. So that's why we're excited about it, because it could potentially open up an entire new industry that we hadn't actually seen before because it's so expensive to get into space today. Is that where - where do you see that industry going? **Peter Beck:** Look, I could give you a business card from Rocket Lab, Benjamin. You described it extremely well. I mean, that's the whole point of what we're doing - is to make space accessible for everybody. **Benjamin:** Who would be your main clientele? Right, so would it be the Kickstarters? I - I mean, I assume you'll fly for pretty much anyone, but you've got to have a vision of like, "Oh, these are the people that we think would fly." Who do you think those people are? **Peter Beck:** Well, we ran this project completely in the dark for the last year because there's nothing worse than an animation and no hardware to prove you're real. So we ran this program, you know, like I said, dark for a year until we reached the point that we felt, "Okay, we've done enough, we're going to get there, so we'll talk about it." We were completely unprepared for the interest that we've received, and we can't get our launch contracts into shape fast enough to meet the requirements. And we have people talking to us from, you know, the large historical aerospace defense contractors through to, you know, kids on the ground with a cubesat. It's just been overwhelming. **Benjamin:** It's pretty freaking awesome. We're really, really excited. Where can people go for more information from now until you start launching? **Peter Beck:** Just check our website out, which is rocketlabusa.com. And yeah, we'll post some new news. And if anybody is looking for a really exciting time down in New Zealand to come and join us with this program, then we'd love to see your CV. **Benjamin:** And before I let you go, I am supposed to ask you, how much number eight wire is used in the rocket? **Peter Beck:** Oh, that's my number one pet hate. That New Zealand saying, because there is no - there is no number eight wire in a launch system, that's for sure. **Benjamin:** All right, awesome. Hey, Peter, thank you so much for taking the time out of your busy schedule to talk with us live today. And like I said, Rocket Lab - we're really excited about what you're doing and wish you the best, best of success. When we come back, we're gonna be talking about comments from our last week's show. Stay with us, we'll be right back.